Psychokinesis: Proving that human beings are more than flesh and blood

So, am I actually getting anywhere with all my recent open-minded truth-seeking? Well, I did last night. Boy, did I!

I used to believe there was no soul, that human beings were purely biological in nature, that consciousness was not some great mystery, merely electrical impulses going through a brain. In more recent years, for various reasons, I came to believe in a human soul that survives death. Last night, I ended up proving it (or something close it). I proved that there is a lot more to being a human being than what conventional science is prepared to admit. Well, I proved it to myself, at least. If you would like to prove it to yourself, you’ll have to do a little work …

Yesterday evening I performed a simple little experiment in psionics called the “psi wheel.” If you key that phrase into YouTube, you’ll find countless examples of it; here is the best one I encountered *. Lo and behold, with a little patience (about an hour’s worth), I was able to make it work. I’ll do my best to describe what I did.

Psychokinesis means the moving of an object by the mind alone. When I was about thirteen, I witnessed what I believe to be the real deal. Many of the online “psi wheel” videos show people using their hands around an object. This is unfortunate, because it allows skeptics to debunk the phenomenon as heat from the hands creating a convection current and spinning the wheel. The experiment I witnessed as a teenager did not involve the use of the hands, so I decided not to use my hands at all. I would hazard a guess that hands merely serve as a sort of psychological aid, helping you believe you can do it.

Anyway, I concentrated on that wheel for quite a while. I believed I could do it, and I think that was probably important. I’ve tried psychokinesis a couple of times in my life and always failed. Learning about the psi wheel clued me into something important: the weight of what you’re trying to move is likely a major factor. I had always tried to move something substantial, like a light-switch or a key or a pencil. Remember, this is the very first baby-step in an ability. I’m trying to discover if there is the slightest force, no matter how small, acting on an object. To do that, the object needs to be both light and easily moved. A piece of paper suspended on a pin is an ideal choice.

Nothing happened for quite a while. The only thing that did any moving was my state of consciousness. I’ve never read up on meditation, but I think this is what I was experiencing. When you concentrate for a while on a single thing, you can feel your mind sort of lift or shift in a strange way. It’s hard to describe. A bit like when you’ve had slightly too much alcohol and you feel a sort of buzz in your head, a slight sense of disconnection with the world. Your vision also goes a little strange, although this may purely be a result of staring at the one spot for a long time. But what you feel in your mind is more than an illusion. I discovered this meditative state long ago when I was a teenager, and it scared the hell out of me, because it was a little too different from normal awareness for comfort. This time, however, I shunned fear and found it was rather more pleasant. I thought perhaps I might be on the verge of being able to move the wheel. But even in the meditative state, nothing would happen.

The meditative state was hard to hold on to for more than a few minutes, so I drifted naturally back to a more ordinary conscious state. It was a few minutes after that that I made the wheel move. I mention the meditation only because it may have been significant as a preparatory step for my mind to be able to do this. The wheel gave a bit of a twitch, and another. I don’t know what I was doing except that I was pushing on it with my mind. I wondered if my leg against the table had caused the movement. So I moved it away. Again, I was able to move the wheel a fraction. I wondered if my breath was affecting it. I covered my mouth and nose with my jumper, blew out a couple of big breaths to make sure nothing would get through the fabric, and nothing did. Sure enough, I was able to make the wheel move with my mind once again. It was a difficult experience to quantify, because sometimes it would work, then a few seconds later it would fail. Then I could get it to work again. I managed to get the wheel to move about a centimetre one way, then a centimetre the other way, back and forth several times in quick succession. I was determined to do a full counter-clockwise revolution. But I found it hard to keep the thing going, and also hard to get the direction the same every time. One of the things I did notice was that when it would start to go the wrong way, I could instantly stop concentrating and it would stop moving. Although I didn’t manage a full revolution, I did manage a one-quarter turn in the direction I intended, in several pushes. After that, I couldn’t do anything more.

While this was happening, I was thinking about the possibility of a draft from the door that I had left open behind me. I didn’t want to get up and close it during the experiment, so I decided that I would leave the wheel set up afterwards and see if any drafts caused movement later. The wheel never moved in the slightest, despite me walking about the house, opening and closing doors and causing air currents. When I got up this morning, the wheel was in exactly same position as I left it last night.

During the experiment, the movements were small and didn’t always happen when I willed them. It’s hard for me to figure out exactly what I was doing to create the movement. It doesn’t seem to be about willing something really hard. If anything, when I applied extra mental pressure, that seemed to stop the wheel working. I don’t know exactly what “mental muscle” I was flexing, so to speak, but I’m confident that I was genuinely flexing it. I think it’s the same principle as those “magic eye” images that were all the rage a decade ago. It takes a bit of experimental practice to start seeing them, but once you discover how, you can do it quickly and confidently from then on. Likewise, if I decide to practise the psi wheel a little more, I’m confident I’ll be able to get better at it. But should I?

Well, I’m very conscious that a friend of mine recently warned me about the dangers of playing with forces outside of our understanding. This guy was speaking from personal experience of having learned the hard way, and it sounds like I’m dismissing his advice. It has to be asked: why exactly am I doing this? It’s certainly not to have special powers to impress people with. I’m interested in discovering truth. I’ve been reading a lot of material recently around the view that human beings are made up of energy that transcends the physical body. Are we merely soulless flesh and blood, as the scientists would have us believe? The answer to that has major implications for our view of ourselves, of the world, and of such practical matters as medical science. Medical science, as you know, treats only the body. But are we only a body, or are we made up of more than that? Interestingly, acupuncture is based on the idea of the body possessing several “chakras” (energy centres), and there’s a school of thought that says illnesses can be caused by imbalances in our energy centres. If that is the case, then I’m sure you can see that our view on what it is to be human has major implications for medical science.

Far be it from me to encourage people to grab the nearest Ouija board (I would say an emphatic “Don’t!”), but if you’re an open-minded person interested in learning something new about reality that you won’t find in a science textbook, I would encourage you to try the psi wheel experiment. If you’re a skeptic, then you’re a lost cause until you can learn a little open-mindedness – which you really should. I agree that doubt is a good thing. It keeps us honest and helps us get closer to the truth by questioning what we think we know. You’ve seen me employ plenty of doubt in my experiment above. But skepticism is like doubt on steroids.

What I now know is that yesterday evening I made use of some kind of energy from within myself – energy that science does not even acknowledge exists. This personal confirmation reaffirms to me the complete inadequacy of the closed-minded, anti-spiritual attitude of what is called science today. We are more than just physical bodies, and this knowledge is either being supressed or ignored, to our detriment.

* It appears the video I’m linking to is an elaborate hoax. An unfortunate choice on my part, but hardly proof that genuine psionic ability is a farce. Just another example of the countless illusions that magicians have been using for centuries. Proof only of our ability to be fooled. It’s like I said at the top, “If you would like to prove it to yourself, you’ll have to do a little work.” No video is going to convince anybody. [Appended 7 August 2008]

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51 thoughts on “Psychokinesis: Proving that human beings are more than flesh and blood

  1. Lee says:

    I’m certainly not close minded to this kind of thing, also can’t really see the bad side of it either. Looks like fun, so I might give it a go too sometime.

  2. Darryl Sloan says:

    I had less success with it today. I’ve just read that you get better results when you use tin foil instead of paper, because it’s lighter and causes less friction. I’ll try that tomorrow. And I’ll try it under a glass jar, too.

  3. Mark Stevens says:

    Do psi wheels work? Yes. Do they prove beyond reasonable doubt that telekinesis is possible? No. I have to ask myself why many pro-telekinesis people are (mostly) limited to psi-wheels as a means of proving that telekinesis exists. The scientific explanations for how psi wheels work far outnumber the lone telekinesis explanation. I’m open-minded enough not to completely rule out the latter, but why are the more logical explanations being dismissed out of hand?

  4. Darryl Sloan says:

    The explanations I’ve heard are these:

    1. Heat from hands causing convection currents
    2. Static electricity from hands
    3. Breathing
    4. Drafts
    5. Outright cheating with magnets, hairdryers, etc.

    No YouTube video is going to prove it to anyone, not in this age of video editing and special effects – which is why I advocate simply testing it for yourself.

    Worked for me, and I’m taking steps to make sure that I’m not fooling myself. As for why people are limited to psi wheels? Probably because it is quite difficult, and we are only able to project the tiniest bit of energy capable of moving only the lightest objects.

    I’m more interested in the larger issue of the implications of this knowledge in determining what constitutes a human being.

  5. Mark Stevens says:

    Then again, with the power of Doomlord on your side, who knows what’s possible!

  6. Chris says:

    Darryl,

    What I now know is that yesterday evening I made use of some kind of energy from within myself – energy that science does not even acknowledge exists.

    That would appear to be the logical explanation: by whatever mechanism, your effort, and your effort alone, was able to generate movement of the wheel at a distance. However, the flaw in this logic is that you’re assuming a complete absence of external forces of any kind. For all you know, Screwtape himself was spinning the wheel.

    So, being an ex-Christian, don’t you feel a certain element of guilt about resorting to God-forbidden occultish methods just to prove to yourself that you have a soul?

  7. Darryl Sloan says:

    Can I be absolutely 100% certain there wasn’t some demonic entity reading my mind and moving the wheel for me? No. Like you say, I’m dealing with the unknown. And Christianity or not, I’m pretty sure there is a spiritual realm with such beings in existence, who wish us harm.

    But is what I was doing really occult and forbidden? It really seemed so mundane to me. I didn’t issue any invitation for help from outside forces; I merely focused my attention on an object, created in intent in my mind, and saw that intent realised … after a bit of persistence. The fact that weight and friction play a large part in psychokinesis suggests that this is a purely human ability. As Mark says, “Why are so many stuck on the psi wheel?” A demon would have little trouble moving a paperweight across the desk.

    I wouldn’t quite label me ex-Christian just yet. I haven’t made my mind up. But I will admit that my uncertainty about Christianity is a factor in my decision to bull ahead with an experiment like this. I don’t feel guilty because the likelihood of this being demonic in nature is much less potent in my mind than it seems to be in yours.

    I would even go as far as suggesting that if this ability were given proper open-minded scientific analysis, instead of the knee-jerk skepticism that abounds in that field, we might see a much-needed re-examination of what a human being is, maybe leading to some renewed thinking on life after death.

  8. Peter Adams says:

    I’d consider videoing this next time. Not really to try to convince people, but to get assurances that it really happened. There is one additional explanation that you may not have considered: that you imagined it. As someone who has suffered from mental illness on and off for years I’m aware of the tricks your mind can play on you. I’ve had very lucid hallucinations in the past. I’m perfectly willing to accept that psychokinesis might be possible and we live in a society that seems to advocate scepticism in everything quite strongly, but the mind is a very complex thing in many ways. some not entirely within our control. I’ve found that perception of reality can be twisted or even knocked on its side quite easily.

    To this end I personally wouldn’t try this, because I know that I try hard enough I’ll see it happen eventually, but it won’t mean it has. Hence, if I did seriously try to experiment, I’d like an external open-winded witness who can verify what I’ve seen.

  9. Darryl Sloan says:

    I’m no stranger to hallucinations. I have them now and again when on the verge of sleep, and they are extremely detailed. I’ve seen extra pillows on the bed, my book on the bed when I know I’ve put it on the dresser, a coat floating in mid-air as if on a hanger, insects on the wall, my bed-side fern grown into a tree and moving towards me as if to smother. I sound like a druggie, but I’m concentrating ten years worth of hallucinations into a single sentence. 🙂

    I’m also aware of a sort of persistence-of-vision effect when you stare at something long enough; you can think you are detecting a wobble when there is no such thing.

    No, this experiment was something very real. I couldn’t have hallucinated a full 90-degree revolution that stayed in that position permanently.

    There is, however, that tiny little niggling doubt in my mind that’s very hard to get rid of. I tried it under a glass bowl and got nowhere, which is only feeding that doubt. Then again, it didn’t work outside the glass bowl yesterday, either. I think it may have had a lot to do with my frame of mind at the time.

    Videoing the experiment is certainly a helpful means of expelling doubt, so I’ll set it up.

  10. Peter Adams says:

    I once woke up after a fevered sleep and had a four minute conversation with Sean Connery who was sitting on the end of my bed. Basically apologising for being incoherent as I wasn’t feeling very well. He seemed to understand…

  11. Chris says:

    Darryl,

    So, where is the video? Show us the money shot! 🙂

  12. Darryl Sloan says:

    Chris, all in good time … like when once I’ve figured out exactly the best position to put the fan. 😉

    But seriously, there is no point in me posting a video until I can at least make the wheel spin, and spin significantly, under a glass bowl. Skeptics will leap upon me otherwise.

    Since that first evening, I’ve been practising every day, and am having little or no success. Of course, someone will say, “Doesn’t that mean that maybe you were fooling yourself the first time?” No need to say it. I’ve already asked myself the same thing. But the answer is no. I remain very confident that I did this for real, and I’m working on the assumption that practice will ultimately yield proper results.

    The meditation is having better results. It has now become much easier for me to enter a meditative state and to feel (or possibly create) energy in my head. This sensation was so real that it gave me a headache for hours afterwards, despite the tranquil nature of the meditation. I was also able to find others online who had experienced the same thing whilst meditating.

    I’ll tell you something, psionics is extremely tiring. I recall when I saw it as a teenager that my friend said “I’m knackered” afterwards. Energy is going somewhere, because I get really beat attempting this stuff.

  13. Stacey says:

    Darryl,

    I don’t discount that you may have moved this thing with your mind — though I’d have to conduct proper experiments to verify it 😉

    I would, however, very much like to caution you in continuing down this path. You know how it is: you just try one cigarette, to see what it’s like. Then you smoke only with friends. Then you smoke when you’ve had a bad day…

    My point is not necessarily that this could be become an addiction (although it may), just that these things tend to go places. Although it may seem small and insignificant now (which is one explanation to why a demon wouldn’t move that paperclip for you – he wants to keep you feeling safe), it can lead to another experiment to see how much you can do and how far you can go with your meditation. Each step will open you up more and more to suggestion and influences from who knows where.

    I have personally seen some freaky stuff done “in the name of Jesus”. All the while these people refuse to focus on Christ; they focus on the “power”. I’m talking about the “charasmatic renewal” movements of healing and “slain in the spirit” stuff. At their meetings, they sing songs over and over, sit and wait, meditate, etc., until the holy spirit comes, or so they say. People start laughing or crying uncontrollably, hallucinating (getting “visions” from God), falling over, jerking spasmodically, feeling warmth and electricity or energy, etc.. It’s all eerily similar to a Hindu guru practice called kundalini awakening, and vaguely similar to the sensations you say you get from your meditation, though only the milder symptoms. These things can be dangerous physically (people have died) as well as spiritually, and can lead to depression and disconnect from reality, among other things.

    I beg you to heed the warnings of your telekinetic friend who has told you his story. I think these phenomena are apparently physical, interesting, and should be investigated… but not by you! They don’t seem to have a good effect on people.

  14. Darryl Sloan says:

    Hi, Stacey.

    Your advice is well taken … to an extent. 🙂

    Remember you’re talking to someone who fully believes there is such a thing as demon possession, and oppression, for that matter. I will not be attempting anything along the lines of say, astral projection, in case such an activity might lead to your body being open to the uses of “others.” In fact, I’m really only interested in meditation and psyschokinesis.

    That said, I’m pretty convinced that psychokinetic ability is quite mundane and safe and entirely scientific in nature. Essentially, all I’m doing is concentrating, then directing my will. Fair enough, the meditation changed my state of consciousness, but only as a natural result of concentration. I’m told this is called focal meditation. I just can’t entertain the idea that demons are involved here. Everything points to science. Even my cautioning friend admitted that psionics wasn’t Satanic. What happened to him was that he went much further, then eventually chose to abandon everything because he didn’t know where the line was.

    I certainly don’t intend to throw caution to the wind, but the reason I’m willing to experiment with psionics is because it’s too important to ignore. For too much of my life I’ve been a victim of “scientific materialism” and the depressing reality it makes you live: there is no human soul, there is no life after death, there is no God, you are an accident, you are worthless, mankind has no purpose or meaning.

    Eventually, I learned how wrong this all was, from a philosophical point of view, but psionics provides a wonderful personal confirmation of it. It would also be nice to able to able to say to an athiest, “So we’re just flesh and blood, are we? Watch this, mate.” Rather than spending a few hours debating with a brick wall.

    You mention Charismatic Renewal. I had one of those strange experiences years ago whilst praying privately with my girlfriend. Wonderful experience at the time, but I ended up discounting it because I wasn’t a Charismatic Christian. I experienced a strange vibration in the stomach area. Right where I’ve recently learned there is supposed to be a “chakra” (energy centre/vortex). I’m very much coming round to the idea that the chakra system and kundalini energy are quite real, and I strongly suspect that the Charismatic Christians are not being touched by the Holy Spirit, as they think, but are manipulating their chakras. I know so little about this presently, but it presents an interesting explanation worth investigating.

    Anyway, I’m going to continue to try and develop the psychokinesis. You can expect a video sometime. 🙂

  15. Chris says:

    Darryl,

    Eventually, I learned how wrong this all was, from a philosophical point of view, but psionics provides a wonderful personal confirmation of it. It would also be nice to able to able to say to an athiest, “So we’re just flesh and blood, are we? Watch this, mate.” Rather than spending a few hours debating with a brick wall.

    In my experience, the more I talk to people and attempt to convince them about anything beyond what they have decided to accept as truth (whether it be spiritual things or everyday material things), the more I think of this particular teaching of Christ:

    ‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’ “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’ “ [Luke 16:30,31]

    So, I’d like to understand in a little more detail why you think psionics is “too important to ignore”?

  16. Stacey says:

    Hi Darryl,

    Side-stepping my husband’s line of thought, although I agree people will refuse to believe things even in the face of proof, from the perspective of a physicist this wouldn’t be proof of the existence of a human soul.

    If you could scientifically document the cause and effect link between your will and the psi wheel moving, the only thing it proves is that there was action at a distance. A good scientist would never leap to the conclusion that the soul was the culprit. Granted, action at a distance is a big deal in the physics community, but they would most likely pursue entanglement or something else for the explanation.

    All that is IF you could prove the cause and effect. It would be very difficult to find variations in your brain activity or physical self repeatedly coinciding with movement in the psi wheel, especially since the cause is subjective and the effect inconsistent.

    I fear some things are under the jurisdiction of science and proof and other things strictly dwell in realm of belief. You don’t have to choose one or the other as a valid world view, though. I am a Christian and a scientist, and the two sides of me are not at odds with each other. They are both methods of investigating and understanding the world around us. We just have to understand the context in which they should be used.

    In summation, and going all the way back to your rant against errors in Christianity, sometimes you just have to believe something because you believe it.

  17. Darryl Sloan says:

    Chris,

    Great Bible quote. Perfect for descibing the kind of people you’re talking about. But I think you’re maybe tarring all athiests with the same brush, probably because you’ve encountered so much of the closed-minded know-it-all attitude from that camp.

    But somewhere out there are those level-headed people who have chosen athiesm or agnosticism because it seems to be the truth to them – not realising that they are victims of scientific materialism. This is essentially what I was for considerable periods of my life, until I woke up to larger rational issues than chasing the burden of proof.

    It’s those people that make this experiment too important to ignore – all the other unwilling and unwitting victims of closed-minded scientific materialism.

  18. Darryl Sloan says:

    Hi, Stacey.

    Yeah, psionics doesn’t quite prove the existence of the “soul” at face value. I know the process of coming to that conlusion would require a lot of thought scientifically. But the mental projection of energy travelling out of the brain, through mid-air, and affecting another object, should certainly open up our thinking on what exactly consciousness is. Psionics (if proven) shows that conscious thought is not restricted to the brain and body. In simple terms, that means we’re clearly more than a brain and body. This understanding would redefine what a human being is.

    “I fear some things are under the jurisdiction of science and proof and other things strictly dwell in realm of belief.”

    I don’t quite see it that way. Yes, I see that a person has to use more than the “burden of proof” in building his worldview. But whatever belief or religion he chooses should be held to for rational reasons. I’ve held to Christianity because I believe it to be rational, but lately the rationality of it is seeming a bit flimsier than it has seemed in the past. If I put it under the “realm of belief” that that sounds like I’m just giving myself permission to believe it on no other grounds than because I want to. What if I wanted to be a Muslim, or something else? I could justify that choice on the same grounds. No, we should build our beliefs through rational investigation, both in science and religion. I don’t see two approaches.

  19. Chris says:

    Darryl,

    This is essentially what I was for considerable periods of my life, until I woke up to larger rational issues than chasing the burden of proof.

    And, during that time, how do you reckon these psionics experiments would have impacted you?

    Don’t be too quick to think that I’m tarring too many people with the same brush. The bottom line is that most people are happy to wake up in the morning and believe whatever they want to believe, and there’s nothing you can say or do to change that.

  20. Chris says:

    Darryl,

    …we should build our beliefs through rational investigation, both in science and religion. I don’t see two approaches.

    Well, then, how can you insist that the power of your mind is moving your psi-wheel when there’s no more reason for you or me to believe that explanation over another which postulates that the movement is due to demonic spirits who are toying with you?

  21. Darryl Sloan says:

    “And, during that time, how do you reckon these psionics experiments would have impacted you?”

    I think it would have helped me understand that consciousness trancends the physical brain. As an agnostic, at times I bemoaned the implications of life being purely biological, and would have welcomed some evidence that there was more to it.

    “The bottom line is that most people are happy to wake up in the morning and believe whatever they want to believe, and there’s nothing you can say or do to change that.”

    I’m not prepared to collectively give up on people like that. And surely neither should you, as a Christian with a calling to spread the Gospel. The fact that there have been several positive open-minded comments from non-Christians on this post does my heart good.

    Remember, this experiment is something that adds weight to a view of the nature of man that is (at least in part) Christianity-affirming, i.e. that we are more than just a body.

    “Well, then, how can you insist that the power of your mind is moving your psi-wheel when there’s no more reason for you or me to believe that explanation over another which postulates that the movement is due to demonic spirits who are toying with you?”

    I insist nothing. I can only hypothesise on the limited data I have. And, based on the experiment so far, and the results, I don’t see the demonic theory having a very strong case. Taking the Bible on its own terms, I don’t recall anything that can lump psychokinesis in with witchcraft, other than the wish to categorise all paranormal things under a single banner. I think this is purely a hidden ability that most of us ignore, just like someone’s ability to feel when a person they are close to has died, or someone’s ability to sense an impending accident or death.

  22. Stacey says:

    “I know the process of coming to that conclusion would require a lot of thought scientifically.”

    You don’t seem to understand. Philosophy requires a lot of thought. Science deals with objectively measurable phenomena. Something cannot be scientifically proved unless it’s at least theoretically testable. People even argued that string theory couldn’t be called a science for lack of a good test of the theory. Postulating that the cause of moving the psi-wheel with your mind is not testable, which makes it a philosophical idea. You may at best show coincidence of brain activity with movement of the wheel to be statistically significant. The nature of the phenomenon makes that highly unlikely. So what I’m saying is that although it’s possible, the odds of this being proved are about the same as the odds of the quantum mechanically possible event of walking through a wall. You’d have to keep trying it for longer than age of the universe.

    Even if it were shown to be statistically significant, scientists would still hesitate to conclude that “the mental projection of energy travelling out of the brain, through mid-air, and affecting another object” is exactly what’s happening. They would merely note the apparent connection between brain activity and movement in the wheel, without speculating on the cause and method of this connection.

    Coming to the second half of what I was saying. As not all ideas are testable by the scientific method, they are not provable. So you believe it and not because it’s been proved, but because it’s philosophically sound. Yes, I agree, you should believe things because they’re logical, because it’s consistent with experience, because your intuition leads you to believe it. When I said some things strictly dwell in the realm of belief, I wasn’t “giving myself permission to believe it on no other grounds than because I want to”. I was making a point that some things cannot be proved, no matter what. And when someone asks you to defend your beliefs, nothing you say may be good enough for them because it won’t prove it, you can only give support for your ideas and in the end, believe them because you do.

  23. Darryl Sloan says:

    Stacey,

    “You may at best show coincidence of brain activity with movement of the wheel to be statistically significant. The nature of the phenomenon makes that highly unlikely.”

    Well, I’d say that this is all pointless unless I can improve this ability to the point where I can move the wheel every single time without fail (and hopefully under a glass bowl). If my comments show more confidence than is appropriate, it’s because I’ve seen the real thing done in person, three times in succession. And I’m pretty sure I’ve done it, too.

    I do see this as falling within the realms of testable science. It’s early days. We’ll see what happens.

    “They would merely note the apparent connection between brain activity and movement in the wheel, without speculating on the cause and method of this connection.”

    You don’t think it would be a major blow to the view that says consciousness is purely a material thing? Thoughts as energy travelling across mid-air? I think that’s a little more mind-blowing to conventional science than you’re making it out to be. Maybe it’s because you’re American. 🙂 I mean that in a nice way. You have so much Christianity over there. Over here, I get the impression that the general public consciousness is more Richard Dawkins-esqe.

  24. Chris says:

    Darryl,

    I’m not prepared to collectively give up on people like that. And surely neither should you, as a Christian with a calling to spread the Gospel.

    It’s not collectively giving up on people, it’s an observation on how most people behave. If I had given up on people, I wouldn’t be sitting here typing this reply, nor would I have wasted all my time on the “Dark-side of Christianity” comments. I hate to tout Bible verses to prove a point, but this realization that many people hear but do not understand is right from the recollected words of Christ.

    Remember, this experiment is something that adds weight to a view of the nature of man that is (at least in part) Christianity-affirming, i.e. that we are more than just a body.

    I disagree. I don’t think it shows anything to that end whatsoever. There is no more of a case to objectively give weight to the claim that we are more than just a body than there is to support a claim that, through meditation, our brains can spontaneously generate a stream of directed energy that is able to effect movement in a paper wheel.

    ..based on the experiment so far, and the results, I don’t see the demonic theory having a very strong case.

    Why not? There’s no more or less evidence or reason to discount it over your belief that the power of your mind is at work.

    I think this is purely a hidden ability that most of us ignore

    But that is just pure conjecture. We do not know for sure what is going on here, and we certainly have no particular evidence or reason to support your hypothesis over others. All we can say is that there appears to be a correlation between your mental efforts and the motion of the psi-wheel, but correlation does not equal causation.

    Ultimately, this is a matter of choice. I choose to believe that we do not have enough of a case to know for sure what is going on here. You have chosen to believe that it is your mental energies which are causing the wheel to move. Which position is more rational? Who is holding his belief simply because that is what he believes?

  25. Darryl Sloan says:

    Fair enough, Chris. You’re coming at it from the point of view that Christianity is absolutely true, and naturally anything with even the remotest whiff of a possible demonic connection is going to be immediately condemned.

    Would I have reacted the same way two months ago? Yes. But today I don’t possess that strength of belief, so I guess I’m willing to take the chance that there’s nothing demonic in this. It seems an extremely small risk to me, and it seems a lot larger to you. And that’s just where we stand. Again, I come back to the mundane nature of what I’m doing: focusing my attention and projecting my will. Nothing more. A kid could watch Star Wars and, in complete innocence, try to do the same thing with his toy light sabre. It wouldn’t be any different in practice from what I’m doing.

  26. Stacey says:

    Americans aren’t Richard Dawkins-esque? *sigh* I’ve known too many who are. We did bring you straight to the Bible-belt of America. Gave you a sort of skewed view with ten different churches lining every street.

    I do think that if a statistically significant correlation was shown, it might be a big deal, but not for the reasons you think. You see it as a given that if people believed the psi-wheel was real, they would automatically draw the conclusion that our minds are not strictly physical things. Why do you think that? As I was saying before, that postulate lies outside the realm of science. If it’s not physical, then by definition, it’s not testable by science, cannot be proven, and so people may or may not believe it. It can only implicate or support your view.

    Of course, if you could do this (I refuse to call it an experiment until there are controls and independent variables, measurements, etc.) repeatedly and under a bowl 😉 then we’d have something more to talk about here.

    But think of this: this isn’t a new phenomenon you’re talking about. Why hasn’t it made a huge splash in science and the world at large? Doubtless, there’s people who have done it longer than you and are more skilled, right? What of them, have they underwent tests and proofs? It may be proof of a soul to some people, and you’re right, we can’t group everyone together. But is their proof substantial, lasting and real? Or is it as ethereal as the experiment itself?

  27. Darryl Sloan says:

    Stacey,

    “You see it as a given that if people believed the psi-wheel was real, they would automatically draw the conclusion that our minds are not strictly physical things. Why do you think that?”

    I know what you’re doing, and you’re right. You’re questioning every aspect of the conclusion I’ve drawn. On strictly scientific grounds, I can’t currently join all the dots in the way that would satisfy a scientist. I just find it exciting that I may have discovered something not recognised by conventional science: thought-driven energy projected beyond the body – maybe that’s the best way I can put it.

    “Why hasn’t it made a huge splash in science and the world at large?”

    I can’t answer that. Conversely, look at the big splash that evolution has made – something that many Christians deny is fact, and they may well be right.

    There is, of course, the school of thought that the US Government knows all about psychic phenomena and is already secretly employing people, such as these “remote viewers,” whilst keeping the rest of the world in the dark about the reality of the situation. Who knows.

  28. Chris says:

    Darryl,

    Fair enough, Chris. You’re coming at it from the point of view that Christianity is absolutely true, and naturally anything with even the remotest whiff of a possible demonic connection is going to be immediately condemned.

    No, not at all. That’s not the point of view from where I am coming.

    My point of view is that your “experiment” lends weight to nothing other than mere observation that there may be at least something preternatural going on. There is no more of a case here for the existence of a soul than there is for energy beams coming out of your head, than there is for demons playing around, than there is for beings from another dimension reading your thoughts and using the psi-wheel as an attempt for communication, than there is for…

    Do I think you are doing something that is against the principles of Christianity? Yes. But that is not the issue I’m trying to push.

    Do I think it’s more likely that demonic forces rather than your own effort are causing movement in the wheel? Maybe. But that is not the issue I’m trying to push.

    The issue I’m trying to push is that you do not know for sure what is going on here, and that you are being more subjective about it all than objective. I understand that your experiences have had a strong effect on you, but you seem to be allowing them to cloud your judgment. You also seem to have lost any capacity for humility in your reasoning ever since this “mental transformation” began, and that will only lead you to incomplete and incorrect conclusions. That is the point of view from where I am coming.

  29. Stacey says:

    Ah, yes, I do know that X-Files episode is based in reality, but I can’t tell you who I heard it from or they’ll have to kill you!

    I guess I was wrong Darryl! This quote comes from the Princeton Engineering Anomalies Research page:

    “Our ability to acquire, or to generate tangible, measureable information independent of distance or time challenges the foundation of any reductionistic brain-based model of consciousness that may be invoked.”

    The project was to gather consciousness correlation empirical data. It shut down, by the way, because they “completed their mission”, which I take to mean they couldn’t, with current scientific tools, take the experiments any further. They mention that the definition and theoretical framework of science would need revised to deal with these things properly. From my brief perusals of the websites, it seems they admit their work is only the initial gathering of unexplained observations and have handed over their data to the International Consciousness Research Laboratories. They did find some implications that focused intentions, especially in groups, seems to have an effect outside of randomly generated data. There was no mention of a soul however.

  30. Darryl Sloan says:

    “There is no more of a case here for the existence of a soul than there is for energy beams coming out of your head, than there is for demons playing around, than there is for beings from another dimension reading your thoughts and using the psi-wheel as an attempt for communication, than there is for…”

    Where do we stop, Chris? If you want to take it that far, let’s go a little further. There’s no evidence for an entire universe outside of YOUR ability to perceive it through your five senses. For all you know, there is only YOU and everything else is a mere hologram in service to your consciousness.

    Stacey had a good quote from Princeton Engineering that I think adds a bit of sanity back to this.

    “You also seem to have lost any capacity for humility in your reasoning ever since this “mental transformation” began.”

    It disappoints me that you see me in this light, Chris. Are you blind to the points where I’ve allowed my opinions to be moulded by the input of others, where they have made sense to me? Go re-read some of the previous posts and you’ll see I’m humble enough to change my mind when presented with something more rational than what I currently held. That’s what the whole open-mindedness thing was about – the ability to be flexible.

    If it seems like I lack humility because I’ve become outspoken, that’s because I’ve decided to stop living in fear of what others might think – to just go for it and express myself.

  31. Heidi says:

    hum hum blah blah blah… post this or not (it’s a bit long), but.. Isn’t the power of the mind through demon spirit/angel or yourself just the same? They are all moving the wheel through their mind??

    I have at thousand comments to make about that but the truth is, I believe. Whether the wheel is moving through yourselves (mind) or through demon/angel it’s coming from some sort of thought/ dome mind. if it moves.. so be it!

    Isnt the power of the mind through demon spirit of yourself just the same. They are all moving the wheel through their mind??

    Psi wheels. Gosh I am a bit out of date. I love reading about any paranormal events, but this is the first time I have heard of PSI wheels. Oops (gosh blush).

    I would like to quote a few of these questions and answers, but I can’t ‘right click’ on the pages haa haa.

    For a start; Why do they use the PSI wheel? …………Well, if it works……

    Another comment; Soul that moves the PSI Wheel is demonic? Urm, I think that summarises the religion we try to live in.. Anything out of their ‘book’ is not good ‘their rules have been broken’ ha, that’s funny.. We did burn the witches, didn’t we? Those who sought other means of belief? Those who thought about other possibilities? Hum (how many generations of thinkers did we manage to kill off??)?

    (Personal thought …religion, because it is not ‘written’ in their book… who wrote that book… who edited that book… who told of us the book………………… God? Jesus? Government??? – Personal thought ended)

    Don’t get me wrong I believe in GOD, I just don’t believe in stupid writing. God, I believe made us in the image of him, he made us to think, feel, love and say what we think!!! We have mouths, we have arms and legs we are WE.

    Personally I think we were training our will to do what we want years ago, but the govnnment wanted it stopped so the ‘witch hunt was made’ now it’s hard to stop………..
    The Internet has made a ‘loop hole’ out of their control; the only way to try to control it is through religion. Sorta understand that if we can all be ‘open minded’ then mayhem will commence (let’s face it we are not all nice people), but that’s life, we are who we are they can’t do it forever, , there will be no stopping it (haa haa megalomania will stop)

    Gosh think of the world if we could cure ourselves, think open-mindedly, still also believing in God as he is – urmmm open minded’ what could and would we do. Over population? The world is our oyster is it not? I think the universe is our oyster, we are just subduing our strengths to stop it.. We are meant to discover the sea depths, the universes magnificent pleasures we are meant to go on and explore that’s why we can have babies and grow and heal and feel.

    Sorry if this offends anyone, this is one hell of an open minded approach!

  32. Darryl Sloan says:

    Stacey,

    “They did find some implications that focused intentions, especially in groups, seems to have an effect outside of randomly generated data. There was no mention of a soul however.”

    Excellent. I’m glad you chased that up. It at least puts the whole psionics thing in a more scientific context. This predisposition that we veer towards a demonic explanation is rather disturbing to me.

    I think of “soul” and “consciousness” interchangeably, rightly or wrongly. What I’m interested in is seeing whether it is scientifically provable that there is more to consciousness than physical brain matter. Doesn’t matter to me if we call it a “soul” or think of it in energetic or spiritual terms.

    Bed-time for me, kids. It’s precisely thirteen (eek) minutes past the Witching Hour 😉 here in Ireland. I’ll talk to you tomorrow.

  33. Chris says:

    Darryl,

    I’m humble enough to change my mind when presented with something more rational than what I currently held.

    Christianity has literally truck-loads of highly rational evidence and argument to back it up, yet here we are, having a pissing contest about stupid psi-wheels. How did this happen, Darryl? What’s going on here? What are we doing?

    Whether (and how) psi-wheels work, or not, is irrelevant. If the claims of Christianity are true, then the consequences are eternal. Why are you laboring over inconsequential curiosities?

  34. Darryl Sloan says:

    Heidi,

    “Whether the wheel is moving through yourselves (mind) or through demon/angel it’s coming from some sort of thought/ dome mind. if it moves.. so be it!”

    Yeah, but it’s pretty important to me that this has nothing to do with demons. If it has, I want nothing to do with it. I am not interested in inviting any form of witchcraft into my life. But I don’t think that’s the case with psionics.

  35. Darryl Sloan says:

    Chris,

    “here we are, having a pissing contest about stupid psi-wheels. How did this happen, Darryl? What’s going on here? What are we doing?

    Well, we’re having a pissing contest because you’re continually putting me on the defensive. 🙂 I don’t mind. It’s helpful, in fact.

    Whether (and how) psi-wheels work, or not, is irrelevant. If the claims of Christianity are true, then the consequences are eternal. Why are you laboring over inconsequential curiosities?

    I just don’t see things in the same light as you, Chris. I don’t see myself as in danger of losing my soul. And what you’re calling an inconsequential curiosity is to me an incredible discovery.

    I’ll tell you what worries me more than anything – that you’ll take this to the length of letting it ruin our friendship, that you’ll start looking at me like some kind of warlock that you don’t want anywhere near your house.

  36. Heidi says:

    Darryl, what I meant was, tell me if I’m wrong, are you trying to control the wheel with your mind to prove that mind over matter does exist?

    I think, If mind over matter does exist then surly that means our bodies are just a vessel for our souls, which in-turn gets me back to who is actually moving the wheel. I myself, am a total believer that ‘anything is possible’, therefore the wheel spinning by our minds or the entity (which are the souls or minds?) of an angel/demon feels to me as virtually the same conclusion. If the wheel spins, something beyond our comprehension is moving it. A mind/soul is moving the wheel, be it ours or theirs. I think I am making sense enough to explain what I mean, then again I will probably re-read this and say ‘ bugger, that’s not what I meant’!

    Also how come you can right-click and quote and I can’t 😦 !!!

  37. Darryl Sloan says:

    Heidi,

    “are you trying to control the wheel with your mind to prove that mind over matter does exist?”

    Yes, that’s it.

    “If mind over matter does exist then surly that means our bodies are just a vessel for our souls,”

    That’s what I think, although, after discussion, it has become difficult to assert this on purely scientific grounds. At the very least, it’s a wake-up call to science to re-think the nature of consciousness.

    “If the wheel spins, something beyond our comprehension is moving it. A mind/soul is moving the wheel, be it ours or theirs.”

    I hear you. Whether it’s demonic or purely a human ability, it’s still a wake-up call to the assumptions of conventional science.

  38. Chris says:

    Darryl,

    I’ll tell you what worries me more than anything – that you’ll take this to the length of letting it ruin our friendship, that you’ll start looking at me like some kind of warlock that you don’t want anywhere near your house.

    No, I won’t wash my hands of you that easily, don’t worry — that’s why I iz in yo’ crib, getting all up in yo’ grill, dawg. 😉 But I do run a tight ship here in the New World, and I don’t admit any sort of hocus pocus under my roof.

    At this point, I’m not as much concerned about you losing your soul as I am about seeing you get on the right track, intellectually.

    This psi-wheel stuff seems like a revelation to you now, but it really is not such an incredible discovery because it cannot and does not prove anything. All you will ever be able to say is that it sort of works. You’ll never be able to say why it works, how it works, or what implications it has for human existence. In that sense, it’s just pure mental masturbation, as Linus Torvalds would say, because it doesn’t lend itself to anything concrete.

    This “scientific materialism” that you’ve been talking about will not be transcended by mere parlor tricks. You need to realize that science has its place as a tool to learn about the physical world, but its boundaries do not encompass an ability to make proclamations on matters which transcend nature. Science is not all powerful — it has very clear limits. The Dawkinses of the world don’t see it that way, but that doesn’t mean they are right.

    Materialism, on the other hand, is an age-old fallacy that has been disproved numerous times over the past thousand years, but it is a lazy and comfortable philosophy because it gives you an excuse to dismiss out of hand the notions propagated by Christianity.

    Nevertheless, the existence of a soul is not something that will ever be proved by experiment, no matter how hokey it is. Ultimately, it is a subjective matter, and you either believe it or you don’t. Personally, I believe I have a soul because I believe in the claims of Christ — I am convinced of his authority, and I bow down to the consequences. I’ll never be able to prove it to you or anyone else, I can only offer a convincing argument. Whether you believe it or not is a choice that’s yours alone.

    It is crucial to try to realize the context of all things, especially science, and where the limits lie. At some point, everything becomes a matter of faith, whether it be in a theory postulating infinite universes, or an acceptance of the claims of Christ. What’s more reasonable and rational is tied in with what’s real. Christ physically existed, but the mental energy of psi-wheels does not physically exist.

    So, like I asked in my last post, why are we here laboring over psi-wheels?

  39. Darryl Sloan says:

    Chris,

    “So, like I asked in my last post, why are we here laboring over psi-wheels?”

    The question assumes I agree with your lengthy preamble in its entirety. I don’t. Particularly, I don’t agree with your assertion that is doesn’t and can’t prove anything.

    Perhaps the reason I’m not seeing it your way is because I’m not treating psionics as if it’s “supernatural.” That unfortunate word puts it in a realm outside of science. I’m not going to assume it belongs there. This is just a discovery, and like any discovery, it should be investigated, because it has implications for our view of consciousness.

  40. Chris says:

    Darryl,

    This is just a discovery, and like any discovery, it should be investigated, because it has implications for our view of consciousness.

    Well, then I wish you success with your endeavors. I don’t think there’s much more I can say in this discussion, so I’ll bow out now on amicable terms.

  41. Darryl Sloan says:

    Okay, Chris. Thanks for all the points you raised. I’ll do my best to keep open and honest and level-headed about the whole thing.

  42. Stacey says:

    Darryl,

    To belabor the subject :)…

    Did you go to the PEAR and ICRL websites? From my understanding, their research showed results outside of randomly generated data, but not statistically significant. Additionally, they seemed to think if anything was to be proved scientifically, we’d have to change the definition of science itself.

    I think the proof of this is a dead-end scientifically. That doesn’t mean that the experience can’t implicate things to you.

    Man, I’m starting to see why Mulder and Scully had a doomed relationship from the start. Mulder was an experiential believer and Scully, though eventually coming around, could never prove anything through her science. Why can’t those two crazy kids end up together?

  43. Darryl Sloan says:

    “Did you go to the PEAR and ICRL websites?

    Yes, bookmarked them, too. excellent reading.

    “From my understanding, their research showed results outside of randomly generated data, but not statistically significant.”

    That sounds like a contradition. Surely if the results aren’t random, then they are significant.

    I’m definitely a lot more Mulder than Scully. I can’t remember how many times I rolled my eyes at her skepticism in the face of revelation. What I’ll never understand is how on earth Scully was a Catholic. 🙂

  44. Heidi says:

    Hi,
    Just a little slip back in time there, well, conversation, about science V’s Religion, I, like a lot of ‘others’ are starting to come to the conclusion that science, like religion, is being controlled by ‘The Big Minds’, as in, we are now told what to think and believe rather than what we really see with our own eyes. I personally think Stacys website was onto something…. ‘They seemed to think if anything was to be proved scientifically, we’d have to change the definition of science itself.’..

    Isn’t it about time we actually did re-think?

  45. Darryl Sloan says:

    Absolutely. Let’s quit looking at everything through the lens of our own fixed perspective and be more open to change.

  46. Stacey says:

    Darryl,

    I can’t figure out how to quote with italics anymore… help?

    You said: “That sounds like a contradiction. Surely if the results aren’t random, then they are significant.”

    Well, randomly generated data should create a normal curve, or more commonly a Bell curve shape. The term “standard deviation” is the term for the half-width of the curve at the height of half the maximum. 68% of the data should fall within a standard deviation of the mean, or center value. If it doesn’t, you can say that the data is not “normal” or “random”. Most of science prefers data be outside of three standard deviations to be considered significant, which means 99.7% of the randomly generated data would fall inside that limit. Of course, the more data you gather, the more narrow your curves can be, and so your certainty level of your hypothesis can go up.

    Either they didn’t have enough data, or the difference that the “focused intention” made in the experiments wasn’t big enough to be very certain statistically, and not certain enough to convince the scientific community at large, that they were seeing a real difference and not one that could be randomly created.

    I guess you have to think of it as how certain you would be that this were a real (and consistent and dramatic enough) phenomenon that you would bet on any given experiment that there would be a visible effect. Yeah, you may take your odds of losing at around 32%, but I wouldn’t bet my life’s savings…

  47. Stacey says:

    Heidi,

    I don’t think we should change the definition of science itself, because science is only a method and a limited one at that. It’s a means of investigating observable and measurable physical phenomena. In fact, I don’t think it’s even possible to change the definition.

    What I do think is that people need to stop worshiping science like a god and recognize it as a tool. Then maybe they’ll be comfortable making decisions without science’s consent and believing things that cannot be “proved”.

  48. Darryl Sloan says:

    Stacey,

    Now I get it. Thanks for the clarification.

    “What I do think is that people need to stop worshiping science like a god and recognize it as a tool. Then maybe they’ll be comfortable making decisions without science’s consent and believing things that cannot be “proved”.”

    Beautifully put. That hits the nail on the head.

  49. Heidi says:

    That bit stood out to me too

  50. Laris says:

    Very good article, this has helped me alot! It is true that it stops when it goes another direction that you wanted to 😛 i laughed when i read that, because happened to me too :P. I can only move it a little, but i dont think at all, so its hard to explain how to do it ;(

  51. Adira says:

    I really, really enjoy reading and watching your stuff on telekinesis. I would like to email you so I can ask you some questions. I have been keeping a TK journal (for about 2 years now) and some of the concepts you have mentioned, I have figured out and they are in my journal. Also, I want to thank you for teaching me some new perspectives.

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